Hitlers Æselører

00:05 has overnight overskreed the Danish border, and has made the landing in different places. 00:17 December 7, 1941. 00:26 Welcome to the program of Hitler's Esenøre, a program about the Second World War. Your name is Jan Korte. 01:00 2. verdenskrig blev indled den 1. september 1939 med den nazistiske Tysklands overfald på Polen. Der var tale om en racistisk erobringskrig, der kostede mellem 55 og 70 millioner mennesker livet, og hvor nazisterne systematisk myrdede jøder, romærer, slaviske befolkningsgrupper, politiske modstandere og alle andre, der ikke passede ind i deres forestillinger om et ensartet folkefællesskab. 01:24 Nazisterne, de blev i årene efter krigen dømt ved krigsforbryderdomstolen i Nürnberg, og flere af deres organisationer, såsom Nazistpartiet NSDAP, SS og Gestapo, ja, de blev stempelt som ulovlige forbryderorganisationer. I denne serie, som vi har valgt at kalde for Hitlers Æsler, præsenterer vi nogle af de mange bøger, som i disse år udkommer om den anden verdenskrig. 01:48 Manden, vi nu skal høre, hedder Svend Troelsen. Han udtaler sig til tv-manden Erling Bundgaard i 1977 om sikkerhedsforanstaltninger i forbindelse med tidens mange attentater. Han er tidligere dansk og britisk efterretningsagent og bliver derfor interviewet som kyndig fagperson. 02:09 Is it also a surprise moment, which is because of the times of the terror action, the OPEC-sports, or the people of Israel's freedom of the Gizler in the Lufthavn in Entebbe? 02:21 Yes, of course, there is also a significant plan on it. You need to go through the whole security network, where it is difficult. And no security network is difficult for it. And it is what you need to find. And it can only find one with a very important work. 02:36 And so there comes, when the plan is good, if the plan is good, so there is a hell to. And hell is, as I said, the preparation that meets under the circumstances of the circumstances. But without planning and without the circumstances of the circumstances, it doesn't work. 02:53 Yeah, so we're going to hear, so it's just a guy who knows what he's talking about. At the point for the decision, there was actually something else. He was an erkend advocate, who also worked for the freedom of the camp, which he also had taken away from. It was for example a many-year-old for the Friheds Fund. 03:12 It was Svend Trulsens's insight under besettings, which he was husking for. As a young officer in Livgarten, he was almost alone and from the end of a new, alliering after-restriction in Denmark. 03:27 It was under a very difficult and difficult time, and also with a lot of old and young officers, who found that Trulsens work with a spionier in Tyskland in Denmark was actually imod of their interests. 03:42 The allieres in London and the Modestandsbevægelsen had a view on the young, young, and reserve officer. For them was and he was a vaske-gte held, and he worked for the allieres stab in the brittiske hovedstad. 03:59 Historien om Svend Troelsen, der døde i 1997, var aldrig blevet beskrevet i en enlig biografi. Altså lige indtil dagens gæst i 2025 på forladet People's Press, udkom med bogen Krigens mørkeste time, der har under titlen Han gik sin egen vej for Danmark. 04:21 And the guest I just talked about is also the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author of the author All the first thing I heard about Trine, why did you actually write a book about Svend Truelsen? I can understand that there was something that made you. 04:54 Yes, I had a whole range of women, which I wrote about, some of these negligee women, which had made a huge impact, which was forgotten. 05:07 But it was, that Svend Troelsen actually had made a very very easy answer, and there were also men who were neglecting it, that we should remember. And I had tried to write him up in Storfjørsdagen, but it was like a book, and that was what I did for Krigens Mørkeste Time. 05:26 How would you arrange him in a hierarchy of the kind of skikkels from the most-stands-kamp? 05:34 I would not call him one of the most kindest ones, but it's maybe also what I'm talking about in my own age. Was he kind of in the same time in the 70's? How would you do that? 05:44 I would say, if we see it today, so he's not a good name. There's a Christmas Møller, maybe an Ebbe Munk and Flammer Citron and so on. And he was not a good name, but I would say, he was long more and was long more a good name in Denmark. And it tells me very much about what he did and his position in reality as an afterthought. Because an afterthought is maybe more... 06:12 but there are several reasons to that he didn't get so famous as the big ones, even though he was really on top, I think. 06:21 And maybe he was also relatively young, and that he did was very famous. But he was famous among the big ones, the big ones. 06:30 Yeah, so he was friends with them, Fleming Juncker and Ole Lipman, and it was like a click, but today, at all in the day I wrote the book, he's not one of them, who young and elderly kender us well. 06:50 And he didn't write a biography about himself and his merits. You say that he was correct and selfish, it can be heard here. He is a lawyer advocate. It's not his style, he feels like it. No, he... 07:11 I have found out of, at there was no one who wrote about him. It was very early, when I opened his house in the Rigs' archive. It was really well organized, as if he wrote about it, he wrote about it. So he... That was his self-reportation, and I would like to give him right in, that there really was stuff to a book. But he had also the problem, I think I, that when first he came in, he would become more critic, than he actually was as a loyal officer. 07:46 in Denmark. I think, or I think, if he would tell the right story, so would he come to a lot of grus on his own fag. Okay. 07:57 And maybe a third year for many years. 08:00 Yeah, and it's not the type of guy. He's a really, really a man. And it's something he's got to at home in the first year of the life of Fredericksburg. 08:10 Bogen bliver indledt med en fortælling af en enig fan, General Lloyd, Kjeld Hillingsø, som jeg tror mange kender. Jeg kender ham i hvert fald godt, han bor ikke så langt fra mig, jeg støder på ham i gang imellem. Og Hillingsø fortæller om en episode, jeg tror den er fra 1960, så det er jo en del år efter, Can you describe what's happening here? 08:52 Yeah, altså the young hillings, he didn't actually know Svend Troelsen at the time. As you said, it was a NATO-work, and there was a war, and there was a war, and there had he had, as a young officer, the job of a powerful and powerful. 09:08 at lede et angrebs mod briterne, som så var fjenden. Og det her, det lykkes rigtig godt. Hans gruppe, han selv, og de identificerer britternes hovedkvarter for omringet overfaldet. Og så står den unge Hillingsø og venter på, nu kommer den britiske kampdommer og siger, jamen, I har vundet. Og så sker der så det modsatte. 09:31 En britisk major kommer og klager ham død og siger, jamen, det er os, der har sejret osv. 09:38 And there is it, that Troelsen comes in and invites him on a formful end Oxford English. He is also a camper, which Hillingsø has been able to use. And Svend Hillingsø says, that they have failed to the English major. It is actually the dancers here, who have won. Pointen er, at mens han står og taler, så trækker han ligesom sin kappe til side helt diskret. Og så åbenbarer der sig altså en række ordner fra det britiske imperium og den amerikanske æreslegion. 10:15 Og den britiske major, han blind og fuldstændig træder tilbage, fordi han ser jo simpelthen en officer, der har gennemgået hele den ærefulde heldedel under 2. verdenskrig. Og det er noget, en brite forstår, så han... Han bliver imponeret. He was simply imponerated and ordered as a British group on the street. 10:35 It's a beautiful story. And there's no doubt about Hillingsø. He was very begeistered for the man. And it was also about, that Troelsen and Hillingsø's svigerfar, Juul, were in the way. So there was a combination, can you say. Yeah. 10:56 Man får dog det indtryk, at man i datidens samfund, og nu er vi sådan et stykke op i 60'erne og 70'erne, det er sådan lidt sent ude med hedderne til trusen. Fordi jeg har jo hørt noget om, at det er jo lige før man ikke kan bære en ordner fra udlandet, hvis man ikke selv har en dansk orden. Han havde ingen danske ordner. Nej. He was not so much as a ridder of Danborough. Man could even think, if you had made a military afterthought, so could there be a little bit of a... And if you had beaten British during 2. 11:27 World War and on all kinds of ways, there could just be a ridderkors. But it didn't come. It didn't come. It was like a technicality, could you say. And it was not all, there were big fans. And you can say, he had some fiends. 11:46 Yeah, altså fiendskabet starter egentlig for Troelsens vedkommende, da samarbejdspolitikken bryder sammen. Han er en loyal officer og er med i efterretningstjenesten, og ja, der er jo den historie her med, at hans efterretningskolleger flygter til Sverige, det kommer vi ind på senere, men det er i det øjeblik, han skal udføre den ordre, som han opfatter er den rette, altså det vil sige genopbygge in a danse-engelsk after-retningstjenester, and there is it, that he meets withstand from actually his own general side, General Gertz, who, in the same way, chooses to follow tyskernes krav to point and point, at pacificere den danske herr. 12:33 Officierne bliver interneret både fra Søværnet og fra herren. 12:38 Goertz trækker sig helt tilbage og deleger den selve ledelsen af den så tilbageblevende danske herr til en lille snævre gruppe of officerer. 12:51 Som man kalder for den lille general stab. 12:52 Lige præcis. Og det er dem, som vi som aktører her i vores historie, både under krigen, altså de hader simpelthen Svend Troelsen af et godt hjerter, og modstandsbevægelsen, det er noget af det værste. Og det er jo den historie, der også fortsætter efter krigen, så hele ærespørgsmålet, eller hvad kan man sige, hyldesen af Svend Troelsen, den kommer i klemme i den oplevelse, som den lille general stab har. 13:17 He gets an order, but there goes a few years, and it's not with Ritter under Krig. 13:21 No, he gets an order, but it's a long, long time. We're up in the 80s, and it's not for his work, that's not for his work. It's from his friends' side. It's Hilingsø, who has told it. 13:36 And others would call it a technicality, and maybe even a smolighed. 14:02 Nå, man får alligevel indtryk af, at den i hvert fald de første mange år, hvor han måske også har andre ting at sige, så fremstår han sådan rimelig historisk og realistisk. And he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks that he thinks 14:33 Yes, I looked very much on. He was not a bitter man. He was actually a lot of his own friends, Fleming Juncker and all of them here. They knew well, what he had done. And so he went to the moment and really optimistic on, at in the day there is a historian, who wrote this story about us, who was set from the real world, maybe most from the British view, so that one could show quite a few... 15:02 in London, and that was with to get Denmark to become an asset as an ally. It didn't have we ever before under the war. 15:11 But it was it, that was a goal. It was like it was a Denmark, that was on the side of the side of the side. On the side of the side of the side. 15:20 But there are some historians that describe this work, and there is no one in it, which Kiele has been trying to do. And when he comes up in the 80's, it's that he begins to take off from the moment. 15:36 Yes, it does. In a long time, he has talked with americans and british historians and journalists, which he is killed for. It's like an afterthought agent, where you can deliver your stuff to someone, who can make it. And there is his story told him, and with Ulle Lipman, who was also with him in London. 16:01 He was a SOI-chef in Denmark. 16:04 And there was actually a special operations executive archive that opened in a historian. It was Professor Knud Jorve Jespersen, who had read this stuff and actually had written in a really beautiful book. 16:21 Umtroelsen, it was so after, it was so long, long in his alder, at it so happened. But it was their way to get their story told, and they didn't want to speak up and speak up. It should be the solid, historical, objective, report. So yes, it was to last. 16:43 Uden at revolutioniere det syn, som den brede historieopfattelse er i Danmark i forhold til modstandskampen. 16:55 Kan du sige lidt om dine kilder? Du nævnte lige Knud Jespersen her. Når du går i gang med sådan en opgave, hvad er dine hovedkilder? 17:05 Min hovedkiller var Rigsarkivet, som jeg sagde, han havde rigtig flot sorteret og gjort klar. Der havde han også engelske dokumenter, som jeg kunne bruge. Jeg var nødt til at tage til London i SOEs egne arkiver, hvor han havde en stor kasse. I Livgarden's archive on Rosenborg found I really good stuff. There's a little bit of detail about how you can find out, how you can find out, who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones who are the ones. 17:40 I was also at the Friheds Museums Archive, and so I was out to talk with his family, his friends, and it was the key to all this. What was he actually for a human being? 17:53 And so he gave us a few interviews, such as a long interview with the famous Anne Volten Rating, who wrote under pseudonym NINCA. Lige præcis. Er det fire timer, han sidder og snarker? 18:10 Ja, i hvert fald. 18:12 Ja, altså det var... Vi er oppe i 86, så han er blevet en rigtig moden mand, og som du selv sagde, så der tog han altså bladet for munden, og vi får hele hans historie, ikke sådan helt fra vugget til grav, men det, som han betragter som sit præg på Danmarks og verdenshistorien. Og der fortæller han altså, egentlig rådt for usødet, hvad... how the order he had found out of his military leadership. And they go back to Denmark. That's why I have the title on the book here. 18:42 He decides to do the order, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, which is called, And the order, which he must be able to talk about, is in fact the allieres order, because the Danske Herrleides doesn't want it to happen. 19:09 Man has a little hint at the interview, which gives him a gas. Is it ever been sent? No, it's not yet. 19:17 It's what he tells us, and he tells us to his children, that I really want to be glad for this, because it's the film over me. It's my life. 19:29 And it's clear that he's saying that he's saying that he's saying that he's saying that he's saying that he's saying that he's saying that he's saying Yeah. 19:47 Are there for many beskyttings? Are there for a lot of work? Are there for a lot of work? Is he going to ask people? Are he going to ask for a lot of people? No, he's a man. 19:55 He's not a man. He's not a man. He's not a man. But for a certain reason, maybe it was in the 80's, but it was still a chance. Yes, if I hear it, then they can do it. 20:12 We should come in with the story from an end of it. And Svend Trulsen was born in 1915. And you describe it as a home in Beskidene K. There's a room for him to send him to a private school, where he learns a language. It's he's quite good to. At the time was it wasn't normal, when people talked quite a lot of language. He can both tysk, fransk and engelsk. And quite a lot, I'm trying to play. And his mother learned to play a klaver. And he glider let in the borgers, skriver you. We should remember, it's just like a time. 20:46 a la matador, where there is a difference on people. And he comes from maybe the lowest end of middle class, can you say it? 20:55 Yes. 20:56 And now in his world, where he came in, there were many of his big children, and a Bernstorfer, and a Revenlover, so there was himself something else in the ring. 21:08 But it was a... 21:11 He's the middle class, but he's actually the journalist over for Ninka, he's the journalist. He's really the mother for having heres with him. He said, otherwise I was never coming there, where I was. I was going to play Klaver, and I really interested him more for my own sports. But it was what he wanted. 21:28 So the social cladretur, which he actually foretages, he has a good job, he has a good training. 21:36 Yes, it's really him. And also as a after-rettings-chef. One thing is, at he in the lifeguard, it's very easy to be asked to come up and lead. But it was more his own person, who had a great potential. 21:51 But in the way he becomes an after-rettings-chef, so it here to be able to speak and manövrere on the bone of the gulvet, to be able to get into the elite, and also concretely the sprung of the competencies, it is what he comes to achieve, as he tells us. Therefore he takes his mom very much. 22:13 Han får en hans-uddannelse first, og så kommer han ind som verdenpligtet soldat i Livgarden 1934. Det er sådan der, hvor hans karriere egentlig begynder. Og man har også indtryk af, at det er der, hvor han begynder at synes, det er sjovt. Og så er han jo altså også god til ridning og tennis. Og det har været også på de her tidspunkter sådan nogle fritidssysler, som overklassen går op i. Og når man også er god til det, så glider man måske også lidt nemmere ind. 22:42 Yes, exactly. And then, you'll notice that he's an artist. He's an artist. He's better trained than the most. I think we're going to conclude. He's an artist. He's socially trained. And then he's taken to Cornet. Or is it something he's looking for? 22:59 He's taken to Cornet. 23:00 And a Kornet, it's a number for Leutnant. It's like a Leutnant aspirant? 23:08 Yes, it's the one eye from herons. You want to find someone who can find someone who can find them as a lead or a sergeant. And then he came to Kronenborg and came to school there. 23:20 There was Kornetskolen. 23:22 Yes, Kornetskolen. And the other eye, which is more interesting for my book, is that there are no one who sees... Blandt de højre militære herrer, han har simpelthen evnen til at blive efterretningsmand, og der er mange kunne blive dygtige militære ledere, men få kunne blive en rigtig dygtig efterretningsagent. 23:42 Og det vil noget med noget karakter og begævelse og sådan noget? Ja. 23:46 It's organisationsevne, it's in social events, smidighed, hurtighed, mod, skuespillertalent. How do they know it? They observe him over time, and it's there, where it's interesting. He becomes set by Einar Nordentoft, one of the leaders in Livgarten. 24:09 And for now has been seen, at he has talent here. He is a reserve officer, and he does practice in his generalist at Slottholm already in 1935. It's a year after. So he does that mean, he does a line-carriere. He says, here we have a guy who can use it. And so he is also home-send in 1935, but he is not ready. You say, his after-rettings-enhed Ejner Nordentoft rekruterer him. And on this point, we have no forsvars-efter-retningstjenester. There is an ENED, which is not so big. And the time there was Søværnet and Heren with another, it was still there. 24:43 But they had each other's-efter-retningstjenester. And Nordtoft, here we can just describe it. 24:55 Altså, han var, han havde en lederstilling i Livgarden, og han er faktisk, det vil jeg kalde, mønsterbryder, ligesom Troelsen, og det skønne og det smukke ved den danske her, det er som integrationsmaskine. Der er altså, det er talenterne, der kan komme frem. Han var søn af en maskinmester, og han kom på denne her Galstor Holbøl skole, en privat skole for officerer, hvis familie ikke havde råd til at betale det selv. Og han bliver selv leder af denne her skole Norden Tofter. 25:26 Han er altså utrolig dygtig til at øje kommende efterretningsfolk. Og det er jo så især dem, man putter på en liste, en reserve liste, reserve officerer, som kan noget specielt. Og det er det, som Svend Troelsen, han bliver sat på denne her liste. So on the other side, there is General Gertz, who would like to have him as a generalist, and there comes a little bit of a trugheri about getting him on the list, so he is very popular. 25:54 But now we are about 1936. 25:56 Oh, he was in principle home, but he had a very good deal in the real life, but he was going to be in the afternoon. So he was sent over to Axel Borg, which was also the time, was a kind of landbring, which was a more important part of the society. 26:14 Axelborg, not so long from Tivoli. And there he works actually the next year. Is he something real? Or is he 100% spion? What would you say? 26:33 Han laver kolossalt meget reelt, altså helt konkret bliver han ansat som sekretær, landbrugssekretær, for at forberede det store jubilæum for Stavnsbundets ophævelse. I 1938? Ja, det er jo det, der skulle foregå i 1938, hvor det er et kæmpe event, og de opdager, at han er god til matematik, 26:56 He's 23 years old. 26:57 Yes, he's 23 years old. At the same time, he's going to do different things. He's going to do different things. He's going to do different things. He's going to do different things. 27:17 So it's a need of a shift, this way of being. 27:20 Yes, it's what I can see, as he tells us to Ninka, as an elder father, at when I came down at Axelborg, there was a different plan with me. Many knew it. For me, as I can see, there was only one, who was in the way of this. 27:39 the mission he also had, and it was Høsbro Holm, the chairman for the Landbrugs Råd, who was reserve officer, and also himself marked with Nordentoft, and he was able to make information back home about the III Reich from the Landbrugs Attaché, because it was the paradox, At udenrigsministerial diplomat, de måtte ikke spionere mod, så at sige, den der fjenden mod Danmarks sikkerhed, nemlig det tredje rige. 28:10 Det var hele den her sikkerhedspolitik, man satte på at forholde sig venligt til Berlin, så skulle det nok gå. 28:18 It's like that, and now I'm going to conclude, and maybe I'm going to get into it, that officially you didn't have to be able to do it with Tyskland, because you were afraid, and you were afraid. And so we have the Efterrejings Enheds, and that we're going to do all of them. It's our job. We're going to do it to private, and I'm talking with my good friend over at Axelborg. He has a fantastic day. So we can send some of these young people, who are brave and clever, and understand it, and they're going to travel to Tyskland all the time. So they get the job. 28:48 Yeah. 28:49 And it was so that it happened, because I would also think that Ebbe Gertz, it says Svend Troelsen, my general was with on it, for it's clear that if you lead the Danske Herr and Søvjæren in the whole time, so you know you have the task of creating an afterthought, even if the government and the politicians say that we don't have the task of, so you have the task of all of the task, and it's what they're doing without the task of politicking, how they do it. 29:19 And it's been held on inspiration, and it's been in a situation, to Tyskland, where he's going to find their own possibilities as agent, or in the whole world, to an afterthought. You have no afterthoughts, if you don't have any agent at any stage. 29:39 And they don't need to know about the agent, but they can just go to the interview with them. 29:45 Yes, exactly. And it was he was very good at it. He had social competence, and his father had been a trainer over the kitchen and worked in hotelbranchen, og det handlede meget om at gøre bordet så at sige behageligt og få folk til at slappe af og fortælle. Og der er det så, at du er uddannet efterretningsmand, jamen så kan du lige lave dine regnestykker, og du kan finde ud af, hvem kunne man senere lige spørge til ditten og datten. It's actually in the British archives, I can see, that Sven Troelsen so early is used to be used in Tyskland, for it doesn't actually come out of Livgardens archives. 30:24 I think it's a point in itself. 30:26 It's not no one that has written down. No. 30:30 And he has also built a network between prominent dancers, because in the Stavnsbunds fest, there's been invited by all of the music. So he has also a network in the... 30:43 The fine and the crisis, where there's been a decision in the world. Yes, it does he. And so he's also his wife, Maud. And who is she? 30:54 Yeah, Maud is a woman, who he meets with his own circle in the first time. There he goes with military officers, officers, and so on. But he meets Maud with... 31:08 In a friend. And she's a very remarkable person. She's very fascinated by her. She's very well-eating. It's not because of her, but she's a communist. She has a very sharp meaning. She's very provocative. And she's also a great friend. She doesn't know how to be a communist. Nej, det gør hun ikke, men vi er jo i 30'erne, så det er interessant, det er jo altid interessant, hvad er det for en kvinde, som en mand vælger, der ligger et eller andet der, han spejler sig i, han siger også senere, jamen altså, jeg læste jo ikke nogen bøger, jeg havde simpelthen brug for at få åbnet min horisont. 31:47 So she had some other intellectual interests, he had. She was more a scientist. 31:53 So he said, I didn't read any books. So he was an officer. They had no meaning. It was a part of it, being an officer. 32:00 But it had a mood. 32:02 And so he was also a friend with one I actually got to know in the beginning. 32:07 him that later on, and now we're long up in, I think we're at 60's, which is Folketingets first ombudsman, namely juror-professor Stefan Hurwitz. It's not that he is, because the institution is not found on this point. He is juror-professor, and as you may be aware of the name, so he is also a Jødisk Baggrund? Ja. Hvorfor bliver han ven med ham? Han er jo noget ældre end Troelsen. 32:31 Han gentager det fra Ninka og fra dem, der gider høre på det. Stefan Hurwitz var min mentor. 32:38 Det var ham, der fik ham til at læse Jura. Det var ham, der fik ham virkelig til at yde det yderste. Han begynder at læse Jura under Axelborg-tiden. But Stefan Hurwitz is a representative in Landbrugs Ministry, and it's where Svend Trulesen meets him. They will make a lot of forgiveness in landbrugs, and they just become really good friends. And again, with Maud, I think that Stefan Hurwitz was the time in the 30s, a very progressif, a good piece, to Venstre, at Venstre Fløyne, and there had we also these wonderful spêndings with authoritarian styre, and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on 33:43 And it's the way to go around in Tyskland and eat some fruit and so on. He is a agent. 33:51 Yes. 33:52 It's not. It's not good. But it's not very unfair. 33:56 No. 33:56 You know what it is, you know what it is, you know what it is. 33:59 And it's a pact that he makes with himself and actually Norden so, when he understands that he is being recruited and he is going to become a man, so it's on your own risk, when you're in the country, if you're taking it, so it's on your own risk. 34:19 The German foe begins its ruthless march of conquest and sets the stage for World War II. 34:49 Poland's 34 million inhabitants crushed, scattered, and enslaved. Tens of thousands of square miles of territory shrink before the movement of lightning-armored columns. Poland and the world learned the meaning of a grim new word, blitzkrieg. 35:04 Ja, som man kan høre, Hitler angriber Polen 1. september 1939, og omverden lærer et nyt tysk ord, Blitzkrig, som de siger her i en amerikansk propagandafilm fra den tid. 35:19 Angremmet for Polen forandres naturligvis, millioner af polakers liv på et tragisk vis, men krigens ankomst til Europa, ja, den ændrer faktisk også Troelsens arbejdsliv, fordi Now begins it to be a little bit more, can you say. Now can Denmark become the next country. It's just like they're beginning to think. Maybe not with the politicians so much, but at least in the head of the afterthoughts. 35:48 It was the extra task he had. At the same time it was on, so ringer Nordenthof to him at the beginning of September 1939, and he will still in Proviantgården, in the afterthoughtstjenestens hemmelige lokale. And so he will get the task at come down to the grænsen, and with the very little afterthoughts, two afterthoughtsofficer, will be able to get the from North Tyskland and the whole time has been able to hold this bill and the risk for a threat against Denmark. 36:22 So after working in three years for the after-restriction, freelance, could you call it, is now locked in in the highest. And there are not many people who sit in the proprietor, right over for the folks' trapper. It's there, where you sit there. 36:41 So it was for him to be like, well, now there's something here. 36:46 Yes, he had, as we talked about earlier, he had been in practice in Generalstaten, where he had helped the higher officers, and we see him there with a lot of work. But he didn't go in there. And it's it, he now has to be open for him. And there is also Nordentoft and Volmer Gyt, one of the very... He's a very active officer, and he's been invited in the job, and it's for him, it was the same as being in the live garden, when he was a recruit. 37:17 It was really a big one for him. 37:19 Yes, and of course, of course. And there are two agents, you mentioned, Volmer Gyt, who is also a central person here, and who maybe is the biggest legend, namely Hassel Lunding. Yes. Kort, describe them both. 37:36 Volmer Gyt is a high-educated afterthought officer, and he is trained in Frankreich. he's very very very very very very very very very very yeah, Bornholm osv., and København, it's the Volmer Gytts area. 38:05 Hans Lunding is a bit older. He was a bit older, he was a bit older. 38:09 And it's like that, that's why he was a bit older. 38:11 Because he was, as a 15-year-old, he was forced to fight against his side. It was a crazy period for him, but he learned all about the German German German German German German German German German German German German German In the moment, when Svend Troelsen is thrown in there in 1939, at the start of the world, there is his lending a lot of people in Nord-Tyskland. 39:06 And he has placed there in Open Rå, where he brings his information up. 39:11 Man har indtryk af, at han kan tale tysk uden accent, og han kan stå til alle kodene. 39:17 Ja, det kan han. 39:18 Hvis han ikke kan have dem alle sammen. 39:20 Og derfor er han jo også... Det er også ham, der trækker læset her, ikke? Jo. Med hensyn til at finde ud af, hvad der egentlig foregår. Ja. And now he's going to be able to get information from agents. And he's going to get a job with the two of them. And he's going to be an agent. And now he's going to play as a secretary in Sønderjylland. 39:43 And there he's going to be a chauffeur that comes from Tyskland. 39:47 It's just, if you think it's very banal, how far you get these information, about what's happening on the tyske caserner in Hamburg and how many hestes they mobilisered. All these small puzzlebriks and information, which they write together and should send over to Nordentorf, so you can give it a bigger picture of the whole time. Well, it's all about to find out some of them, and bl.a. where there are some certain fish dealers, and so on, which Lunding was on, and who brought his killers information. 40:20 So there's Svens Rolten, who started to make a kid, he should stay there at the Udfartsvejene and get rid of these information. At the same time is he himself the role, he spills himself, as he says, Hans Lunding is actually playing in itself. The two are quite a lot of people, and it's always always a survey in an afterthought. How much should you be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able to be able 41:01 Hvor gyt er måske den mere sikre, så er Lundin, måske fordi han har nogle flere strenger at spille på, lidt mere risikobetonet. Og han skal prøve at lægge sig mellom de to. Og Lundin giver Trusen nogle andre vigtige opgaver, og han vokser med dem. Og de laver jo et veritable kub. 41:25 Trusen får placeret en dobbeltagent hos tyskerne, and on the way they have a part of the part of Tyskernes Agentnet in Sønderjylland. Are there 100 people they have? 41:35 Yes, that's what he has. And it's a really good example on, that Svend Trulsen goes in and uses its milieu. It's a previous lifeguard of a recruiter, which he can help with. 41:50 Altså, vi har en opgave her. Hvis I kan hjælpe, så kom op. Og så er der den her tidligere Livgarter, der møder op på deres hotel i Åben Rå. De bor i, altså, Troelsen og Lunding bor, ikke i samme værelse, men lige ved siden af hinanden. Der tropper den her Livgarter op, og han siger, ja, jeg er simpelthen været af tyskerne. Og det er jo de her meget blandede... 42:12 nede ved grænsen, altså hvor lojaliteten egentlig er, så den kan være skiftende, og der siger den her unge mand, jamen altså jeg vil faktisk gerne arbejde for jer, og det er så ham, de får til at agere dobbeltagent, og det kommer til at resultere i, at de i samarbejde med nogle betjente dernede, som de stoler på, får anholdt 100 mennesker. 42:35 Han insisterer på, at han vil kende alle de andre agenter, og det hopper tyskerne på. 42:39 Det skulle de nok ikke have gjort. 42:41 It's a fantastic story. 42:43 Yeah. 42:43 But there's in the whole time many fantastic stories about Lundin there. He's the closest to, when he comes from James Bond. He's the closest to Tyskland. And then he's the closest to Tyskland. And then he's the closest to Tyskland. Yes, he's the closest to Tyskland. 42:56 He sees it as his task to make up to him, and if there is no one after him, it knows he well from his general there, like Svend Troelsen. If you're up there, you can't do it. We can't do it. There comes no care mor. And therefore, Lunding takes on a point back. over den danske grænse, nord for den danske grænse, placerer sig i Open Rå, fordi Gestapo ved egentlig godt, hvem han er. Men han har jo, han får jo en regel, han har en rigtig god ven i Gestapo. 43:27 Ja, det er jo en fremragende, det er jo måske den vigtigste agent i Gestapo, nemlig Hans Hermansen, der er Gestapo-chef i Flensborg. Ja. 43:36 And he became an agent for the movement movement during the whole war? 43:42 Yes, it did he. 43:43 And it was also from the Superdacen to the end? 43:45 Yes. At the start of the beginning, as I said before, there was a lot of conflict here. 43:53 Hans Hermansen, who is from Flensburg, had some friends. Hans kone was a really good friend with one of Hans Lundings' kilder, and they spised together, and Hans Lunding was also with to midday, so there was Lunding him to... 44:09 at Hans Hermansen gives him some names. So it starts a little small, but in the same moment, when something started, so begins Garnenøglen to be rolled up, and it strammer more in over Hans Hermansen, but he gives him a lot of advice, because he later, under the press, will be clear over, at Hitler will come back to the table, so I actually help the Danske... 44:33 Well, I'm doing it quite a bit. It's just like, here in the next week, so we're going to arrest them, them, them. Yeah, it's arresting the list. 44:39 So it gives him, and... Yeah, I can't believe, what there's been for... And he doesn't get away from... He doesn't get away from... He doesn't get away from... 44:47 He doesn't get away from... He doesn't get away from... 44:50 No, but they work hard here, and there's an interest in it with a success. It's not as a surprise at Tyskland, which is in Denmark the 9th of April. But it's not... It's not like the government is interested in the report of the Tysk Fiending Activity. 45:11 And Svend, the young Svend Troels, man should just imagine, he's 26-27 years old, he's got a lot of stuff over it here. They come with a billet, and Hans Lunding brings daily to Nordentoft, and on a point of time, we know, at up to 9. April, there's a 60 km of a colonne. 45:28 They have a short, where they have nole, and say, well, now are tysks here, and there are so and so many, and so now can they just follow colonne, the whole way up towards the danse. At some point of time, they have to go home, all these people, and what we have. 45:41 Men jo mere sandsynligt de giver deres billede, desto mere taler de for døve øren. Og det er jo det, som vi ved i dag, og som historikere har vist, at regeringen, krigsministeren også, jamen de havde besluttet, at der skulle ikke mobiliseres. De så worst case for dem, det var, at Tyskland kom, og så ville de måske lige tage nogle enkelte punkter i Jylland, Aalborg, Lufthavn, den var jo en lækker bist, men så var det det, og så kunne vi ligesom trække vejret og blive ved med at holde os neutralt, og det var simpelthen den beslutning, de havde truffet, og det er jo det, efterretningsgruppen, og så især den unge Svend Troelsen, han er jo vanvittig rasende, det er gyt også, altså. 46:25 Altså, han siger det her interview, Trudeau Meninka, vi syntes politikernes reaction var totalt latterly, man kan høre ham sige det, ikke? Og det er jo selvfølgelig især Lundings indberetninger, der klargør, at katastrofen, den er på vej. Og så står de jo der om morgenen den 9. april, og så henter de petroleumstunkende frem, og så står de så ude i bibliotekshaven. Det er der, hvor vi andre går tur og hygger os og sådan noget. Der stod de simpelthen og brændte dokumenter af, sikkert i nogle olieturner eller et eller andet, ikke? 46:53 Yeah, and it was the big shock, as Troels said, I was not so chockered as the others, because I was in the group of people, and they had prepared the fire, because what did they do? Well, it was a killer, which were... Yeah, it was a killer, of course. Yeah, of course. And maybe also from svenskers and so on. What did they do? 47:17 What did they do? 47:18 It was it, that they had to go up in Røg. 47:22 But then it's, yeah, now Troelsen is a different place, can you say. All right, he's in the landbrugs room, and what's so now? His chef, it's just Einar Nordentoft. 47:33 Yeah. 47:34 What's saying Nordentoft to Troelsen? 47:35 Yeah, he said, you're going back to your home at your home at your home, and so you're going to clear if it's raining on, but you're not with in this. It was just like, that Nordensoft and Gyt told us, that tysks would come either to skyde them or neutralize them on a certain way. And so it's interesting that tysks, after the cooperation of the British, In the first days, there comes a lot of people who are going on. 48:07 They say that they might want to continue to be a lot of people, but they should be a lot of people in Denmark. All right, England, Saboteur, Russes and so on. And it says Gyt and Nortensov say yes to. And it's there that Nortensov sees that Nortensov, who sits on Landbrugsrådet, who can help them after holding them. 48:31 Yeah, if it's on a certain way, it's together with this play. 48:35 Okay. 48:38 In the morning of the 19th of April, the land of the Norwegian and Danish neutrality, a number of troops of Norway's and Denmark's German troops. One of the history of the war. 48:49 Yeah, it was in the crisis story a completely honest presentation, that you have now got to take place in Denmark and Europe on the 9th of April. 49:00 And now is Trusen here. He was on the phone. He was on the phone. He was on the phone. 49:09 He was on the phone. He was on the phone. He was on the phone. He was on the phone. He was on the phone. He was on the phone. He was on the phone. 49:30 And then, what should I say? He begins to write jura, but he's not a student, so he's going to cast over the studio, so he begins to take a student exam on a student course. 49:44 And you can get a very, very much of a man. What he doesn't know in... I dagtimerne, der tager han jo så nattetimerne med, og sikkert også med opbakning hjemme fra fruen der, fordi han bygger også hus. Parret har så en tragedie, eller de får et dødfødt barn, men man har indtryk af, at... 50:07 that there are so many other things in their lives, so they come on a way forward. And so he gives him a book with Stephen Horowitz, and that's actually a meaning for his after-rettings. 50:22 How are you doing that? Yeah, but there is, we know it, there comes August-up, and the whole summer, in 1943, and there is a lot of pain, and there is, yeah, Folk ude i provinsen, faktisk i Jylland, begynder jo at gøre oprør mod tyskern, og der er jo også den her oplevelse af, at Hitler faktisk er ved at tabe ude på fronterne i verden. Så det er det, vi ser som starten på den egentlig større modstandskamp. Og der er det, at Hitler jo så reagerer ved, at... 50:54 Yeah, altså, Tyskland overfaller jo den danske herre Flood, og det, eller i hvert fald planerne om det, det er efterretningstjenesten fuldstændig klar over, så der er blevet gjort klar fra Nordentoft og Gytts side med falsk identitet, at de skal så gå under jorden og have en underjordisk efterretningstjeneste. Og det er der, hvor Gyt især peger på Troelsen som The one who can sit and drive an after-retningstjeneste, illegal, while he makes his work. He was coming in with the Kødforsynings-adval. 51:28 It was smart, that Høsbro Holm, the foreman for Landbrugsrådet, had sat him in. It was a Tyskern, who had pressed on for a... 51:39 And so that he was writing the book? 52:04 Yes, he had written a book with Stefan Hurwitz, and he didn't think about it, but it was in the moment when Svend Troelsen himself should be a chef or be able to get a new book, so can he use the book as a authoritative, it's about to be a professor, to talk around with the dommers, and sovneråsformands, etc. So it's a part of it isn't a part of it? 52:29 Yes, it is it. 52:31 And then, when the chief goes under the ground, you say it. I just speckered at all of them, who have been with the afterthought, they go under the ground, and very quickly, they are going to go to Sweden. So it is to say, it is a 28-year-old young man, with some experience. If you could place this, I think it's a colossal job with a, what's called it, to build a dansk-alliered-british-efterretningstjeneste in Denmark. 53:05 And that's maybe also a big deal. 29. august, 1943, he plays a role. It's there, man overfathers her. He is himself her, man. There is also on this point, that man is out after the Jewish people, and they will evakuize. He personally gets a smug of Horowitz and his wife, to Sweden. And he's on the way, that it's the Jyde-Action, which is creating a contact network, because it's not going to activate people, who didn't have to take still, or have been passive. 53:40 Now they're suddenly active, because it's an abo, it's friends, maybe even family, so it's going over. 53:46 It's just what happens in September and October. And it can be very out of, at in 1943, at he himself becomes a really bad man. For there is just that, at Volmer Gyt is going to go to the and his helpers and all of the officers are interned in these places that are going to happen and he is very chockered for he is only with a little spion camera he has no money he can't get fat in Nordentoft and London is being held by Gestapo so the whole an afterthought can i tell you about mellinet and agent and so on them can't use anymore So he's going to build it up on a new way. 54:33 And then he decides to go his own way. 54:35 You should listen to him. He's been asked to make an afterthought. He's got a camera. There's no money. The old net is away, stort set. 54:46 And he's 28 years old, and he has a wife at home, and he has a little bit of a house, and he has a job at Axelborg. And he has a jure. How many times in the day have the man? 54:58 Yeah, but it's a completely different way to figure out how to build it up. And he's also very choked, but he's beginning to think, who can help him here? Is it important to use his contacts from Landbrugs Råd, for example, to be sent to Politico, because It's the people who know what the Tysians know. We should also be in Denmark, which is in chaos. 55:21 The politics are brought together. The politicians have lost Christiansborg. 55:26 And there is also going to go out and contact some of his reserve officer, who could help him with a new stab at Axelborg. 55:37 So it becomes a whole quarter for the after-retning. 55:42 Yes, it becomes his new after-retningstjenester, where he uses landbrugs network. He had it back then, where he made a jubileum in 1938. All the people he knows, and he became a big fanon there, when he made the big jubileum in 1938. They see him as a young organization, so it is about to get a new Mellanet. 56:06 But a big game-changer is also, that he chooses to look at the civil movement movement and the lead. And when he comes down in Mogens Staffel's book hall, he's been moved on Kongens Nytor, and he's been living in Darmerhus. 56:22 And there are Tysk and the whole quarter. 56:25 Yeah, and the Måne Staffel, the brother of Jørgen and Måne Staffel, was known among civil young people, and also some military young people. It was there, it was like that. There came, when you were able to try some big illegal books, and there was a sabotage of the work, and so on. And they had so moved up On the Kongs Nytor, there's Svend Trules to meet up, and it's there he meets his very early and early life friends, namely Fleming Juncker and Ole Lipman, who already have contact with England, and there is Svend Trules very much I'm imponeret over, at there's a dansk her, who doesn't have any contact with England and the allies. 57:09 But these civilized people have already taken away from the war, and there is coordinated everything from this book. 57:16 And it's what you should understand. It's two different countries. It's the military world and the civilized movement movement. 57:26 And it is true that he has been in the military, but he has been in the middle now. And it is, I think, it is, that's what he is doing for the rest of the life. Because it is not everyone who believes that he will do it. 57:43 And the reason why he can do it is because he is holding out for it in a certain way. Or there is a little unison of the way he should go. 57:51 Yes, yes. Now comes the clear conflict with a her, which will do all for... 57:58 that the officer doesn't go into the movement. And so there are all these civil groups of women, women and women, who are flammed from being sabotaged or to make a undergrundsher, which can help, when the allies are coming and invading and fringes. So there are two different groups there. And there is it, that Sven Troelsen, I think, is quite... imponerende, prøver jo at blive ved med at synes han at have et ben i begge lejre og ligesom få trukket den danske hær ind i det her allieret modstandsarbejde, ligesom på en eller anden måde helt paradoxalt kan man næsten sige, eller han vil gerne gøre modstandsbevægelsen til den danske stats modstandsbevægelsen, og det kommer han jo ikke så godt ud af det med. 58:46 But there is also a difference in the analysis, that the generalist, which is the officer, they think that the biggest trouble in Denmark, when it's all overestod, so could it be, that the land was overtaken from the communists, and maybe in the Soviet Union. And you should remember, that the Soviet Union was... Før krigen, det lyder utroligt, men mange mennesker opfattede Sovjetunionen som den største trussel, som en større trussel end nazisterne. 59:18 Det fik man så ændret syn på, men det var der, og det sidder nok stadigvæk i dem. Hvorimod, Troelsen mener, det er overdrevet. De har ikke de våben. Faktisk mener han, at man skal samarbejde med alle. 59:33 also communists for at jage nazisterne ud af landet, eller kæmpe på dansk side. Det er vel også der, hvor folk sætter jo de skeptiske over for modstandsbevægelsens arbejde, de skeptiske over for samarbejdet med britterne, They use their strength to prepare militarily and venting. And then they put, God help me, reserve officers to spy on Trusen. 60:04 What progress is that he makes it over at Axelborg? He makes it over at the agent. 60:10 And it was amazing when you read your book, Trini, it was, that there was a lot of people who recruited these people. They were simply over on his side. 60:22 Yes, absolutely. And I have really taken a long time to understand these two different projects. Because there was a completely different project. Gørts and the little generalist's project was to support it. The politicians were going away from Christiansborg, but there was on a way a government. 60:40 The project is to be able to get the Danske HØR, to get the whole HØRN to evacuate to Sweden, and to let the HØRN to be trained, and to make sure that when the Tysians went home, then the Danske HØR would be able to get the Flåden. 60:55 should come back to Denmark and get rid of them. It doesn't matter if it's a king who will fight for Tyschers. And it's another project that you have in the civil war, the ledels of Fleming Juncker, Ole Liebmann, which we know as the big war, is that you ... ... ... ... ... 61:31 I haven't heard of it after the war, until everything was overstated. So it's the same thing. Because it's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. It's the same thing. 62:02 There is not a Danish military military military, who works for the British. There is a transatlantic military military military military, who works for the military. So it's again, it's a private initiative. 62:18 Yes, it can you say, and it's also what they're asking for, at Christopher Smøller, it can't do it again after the war, but if we go back to Troelsens Sko there in 1943-1944, then he works very well with his own project, which he feels at the right. He knows from his time with Gyt and Nordentoft, what it is that Englishmen will have, because there are going on meddelses from and back over Nordsjøen, England is interested in Jylland, England is interested in Aalborg Lufthavn, which the tysians have led to their Luftkrig. 62:50 And so they are interested in Flensborg Fjord, namely U-bådene there. And it's it, which Troels also personally, very personally, goes in as a James Bond at the start of the beginning. For he said, I can't afford to train agents to do this, which I know should do. He was also a guard. He knew how you could do it. And there is it that he makes these stunts with, he makes him out as an engineer and comes in on a... Tyskern is overtaken in a Hørup-Haw, a U-Båd station. 63:23 Sydsforalsing? Yeah. 63:24 And he sees some tegninger of U-Båd, and there he loses a vagt, and he's flygts, and they get sent over to London. It's just a moment. And the next stunt is, with his good friend, Carl Christian Scavenius, not with Eric Scavenius, but with a reserve officer Scavenius. 63:44 They are in the family. 63:45 Yes. They are in the family. They are in the construction of an engineer, and they are in on Aalborg Lufthavn. And in four hours, they go around with the tysk officer for saying, they should order this task. or the construction of the hangar, and so they have photographed and observed, and they have sent very, very important strategicals to London. 64:06 Two of them, which you themselves would have had to cast a ride of course, as I would say, when I am. I am sitting in the Hoffman-Skallat. It's fantastic. And in the very long practice, they have also established some post-routes. 64:21 where information flyer from all parts of the West Coast, the troppe movements. The British have some things, they would like to know. All the military, from A to B, is interesting. You have to go up to the U. It's interesting. Because it's in the East Coast, that they sit and... 64:42 Tyskernes laver de her experimenter med nye ubod. Altså ubodsteknologi er tyskernes jo fremme med. Altså efter krigen så stjæler de allierede så meget teknologi de overhovedet kan, fordi tyskern har været langt fremme om det. Og det er i Østersøen det foregår, fordi det er sikkert. Så det er jo sindssygt vigtigt det der foregår. 65:02 Yeah, and it's, as you said, it's the very practical thing. One thing is to get information about it. You should also have a courier, a mille, and it's going to go over to England, and so there's also the whole work with trying to get a radio-sending, and so on. And it's been working with Troels in the period of 1943-1944, so he has actually built a very professional. 65:27 And there was also a private offer. He had to give him a private offer. He had to give him a pro forma from his kone. 65:35 Why did he do that? Yeah, it was in 1943, where it was for him to give him a chance. Because he can see, at on a certain point, there will be an opportunity for the Tyskernes side. And if they come home to Villa in Gentofte, where there already is a child coming, Altså, de fik jo et barn efter det døde for et barn. Jamen, der ville Mozart så skulle sige, jamen, jeg aner ikke, hvor den stodder er, og han er skredet osv., og så kan hun blive skånet. Men det er en stor familiær omkostning, fordi det betyder jo også, at hun ikke længere kan vide, hvad han laver. 66:12 Og den omkostning bliver jo ved resten af krigen, fordi han kommer jo til at komme til England. Han er nødt til at tage til England på et tidspunkt. 66:21 There are many stories to tell here. In principle, he's just an agent for 8 months or something. He has built everything here on 8 months, and then he has been able to fly in May 1944. So it's a pretty short time. And there are for example, at this time, you can't just go around in a car so much. So they are cykelagent. The people cykler around, where they can, for to get a report. And it's also a typical reserve officer, that's a chance. And he's still there, as you mentioned. 66:55 There's also a foretagsomhed. Olipman is a fabrikant, so he can help him with... Medicinsk udstyr. Medicinsk udstyr. And the so-called anusyliner, because they take a picture of everything else. And when it goes over Sweden, so can you stick it up to various places. In the body, where men and women have so many places, where they may not lead first in the first place. 67:19 So there was a lot of creativity he was also involved in. And so there was also that the organization in 1944 was offered for Gestapo's rights. What happened there? He ended up with a house of rights at a time. 67:37 Yes, so the generalist will have him stopped at the whole time. 67:43 because they were forced to be forced to be forced into a house arrest in Skodsborg, in a villa. They would have stopped the election to a deal for the allier. They said that they were not interested in it. And there is it, that Troelsen becomes nød to be able to do it for the heads against him, or the jagt on him. He becomes trod with him to become skud, if he doesn't force himself for the generalist. And there is it, he comes to Sweden. It's Ulle Lipman, who helps him to Sweden, for it's what the generalist sees as a solution. 68:17 But Troelsen has a solution. The solution is that he has with his friend Fleming Juncker already told, that if this happens, then he will go to London, like Fleming Juncker. He has also been after him, and Juncker is already over in England's headquarter and rådgiver Englander about the freedom of Denmark in relation to the netkastning of våben. 68:38 And there is it, that Troelsen chooses, in collaboration with Fleming Juncker, to take from Sweden to London. And that's where he is, the last part of the war. 68:50 And it's been a long time to come to London, because the day of the day is up. It's there isn't anyone who knows. So there's not really any fly, so he can sit and vegetate a bit in Sweden. And I'm trying to help him. 69:03 We could maybe introduce one of his life-fienders. It's Captain Skyrt Eriksen, who is the leader of the generalist. He gets to know, where he sits in a house arrest. There are a few of them who sits in a house arrest. And there sits in one of them. He gets to know that Skyrt Eriksen has said to one of his people, if he goes, you skyder him. 69:28 It's probably not the reason why they're coming to a knuselsk. Trusen means that Skjød Eriksen is on more than one way. And Skjød Eriksen means that Trusen is on a lot of bad things. But he comes to England, London. 69:53 We are Scotland, you know. And there he works for Special Operations Executive, SOE. 70:01 And Brits, they... They can also see his talent. It's not going to start from the beginning, but... It's a time for him to get rid of it, right? 70:14 Ja, Svend Trulsen kommer over, og som efterretningsmand, der kan se, at alle de efterretninger, som er blevet sendt fra Danmark, der er råd i dem, så han kræver simpelthen, at han får det organiseret og bliver chef for det, og han sidder så og skriver efterretningsrapporter og tegner billeder, og han bliver en handelsmand i efterretninger. Jeg kender det jo fra mit tidligere arbejde. En ting er, at man samler efterretninger, og skal det levere, at man skal også have formidlet det her billede, of the Tysians in Denmark. 70:47 And then he's going around in London, and becomes a person, because there comes one from the end of the doors here, and explains what happens. 70:56 He's going to find the information, so they can use it to bombetalker, or what there should be, or who they should have, if they cast something down to them, or something like that. So the information, which that his people have brought up, that they have actually brought up to it. For at some point, he finds a lot of money with the dance material, which has never been used to use. It must be a rush for him. And in order for him to sit and flip over it, so he has set a skip on it, as you say. And it's maybe his important impact in Storbritannien during the war, is that he has set a skip on it. 71:32 Yes, it is. And after the war, when the group of leading people talk about, why Denmark actually was recognized as an ally, there was of course a sabotage. 71:48 There were the Tyskernes for Syningslinjer, the ones who were coordinated with England, and there was of Kaufmann over there who said no, and there was also some prestige in Washington. And then there was the Efterretningsirks. That was the whole argument, for that was what the Allier had used for in their freedom of action. 72:07 But it's not enough to fill his day out. He was also officer, but he was very hurtful. He was also major in the regiment, which was called The Buffs. It's all there, where you organize all the dancers, who were slowns in Storbritannia. They were in The Buffs. And he was in a falsehood of his president. and under the veil, so he's also with to, and now we're so soon ahead in, it's beginning already in 1944, he's with to plan to make Royal Air Force operations, first at the start of the whole quarter of Aarhus, very, very well-being, and then at Shell House in København, also well-being, but as we're well-being, with very, very katastrophal, for isär eleverne and the teachers on the French school, which is The army started already after invasion of 1944 in the summer of 1944 to make it difficult for Tyskern and Gestapo. 73:14 That's what Svend Troelsen, when he is there, and he is one of his most important things. 73:31 The agent, Ruth Philipsen, who is taken away from Gestapo, who sits at Gestapo's Jyske Kvarter, and there he is with to get it up in the bunk, the bombetogt towards Aarhus, which finds place at the end of October, and as you said, it was very well. 73:49 It's a very amazing story, how all around him are living. And so she's almost unskilled, and she's coming to Sweden. It's a fantastic story, you can read. But in London, you live with two other legendary people. We've already mentioned Fleming Juncker, and the next SOE-chef in Denmark, Ole Lipman. They live in a place in London. It's a hererkollektiv. 74:15 and they work in a døgndrift, and that should be understood, so they will not spend time to go into the environment, when the air is loud, and that they do on this point, because we are in V1 and V2-bomberne's time. They were in over London here in 1944, and now we will hear some reports from London, where bomberne falls in 1944. 74:54 What? 75:15 Yeah, the last one was very close to him. I think they have a nervous system, if they get up. And they work hard to increase the amount of våben and sprangstoffe to the Danish world. No time will spill. 75:29 And you write, that they take amfetamin-tabletters for themselves. 75:32 Yeah. 75:33 Døgnets lyse timer var ikke nok. De var simpelthen nødt til at forlænge det kvikke øjebliket op i hjernet. 75:42 Så det var ikke kun tysk panser og jægerpilot? 75:45 Nej, det har jeg så siden også set, at mange af modstandslederne i Danmark også fik kastet ned fra englænderne, så de kunne holde bedre. 75:55 But in England, the fight they have to go over in Denmark or København, that they also have to be able to. Because the work of political and Skjødt Eriksen, they have a alliance here. And they are going to talk about the movement of the movement. And there is a man who calls Herman Deliken, who does it. 76:17 He is from politics. And it is like a really intriguing environment in London. There should be Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot. 76:47 Tidligere, men han har simpelthen besluttet i løbet af 1944, nu hjælper han de danske politikere, og vi skal have englænderne til at se de danske politikeres valg som det rette, og selvfølgelig også folkeopinion, så de kan blive valg. Og derfor bliver Svend Troelsen for ham en, der skal nedgøres, fordi det er jo lidt en anden version af historien, som en Troelsen og en Fleming Juncker kommer hjem og fortæller sig. Samtidig er der også en kampen om Jylland. Troelsen fik jo uddelegeret, og Fleming Juncker fik uddelegeret deres SOE-arbejde til nye folk, og det er ikke noget, den lille generalstab ønsker at støtte sig, så der foregår simpelthen ret hårde magtkampe i Danmark. 77:29 And then of course it is, who talks about in London, in the English Udenrigs Ministry, how can he make his house green? And Troelsen is there, and also tries to follow these intrigues, and on a way to get the right picture. But he becomes, when Troelsen comes, and Troelsen comes in Denmark, he becomes with his wife. 77:55 of their own military leaders and politicians. And this is the picture we have. It represents the whole movement of the movement, that they can have the flag in five or six days, and then it's about to give them to. 78:10 Som om det ikke var nok, så deltager Troelsen også i en del falskabsoperationer. Det er en 10-11 stykker i Frankrig og Belgien, og det er ikke noget, du ved så meget om. Det har han formentlig taget med i graven. Du antyder, at han oplever ret forfærdelige ting, som også kommer til at plage ham sjældigt. Han har jo ellers også udsat sig selv allerede for rimelig meget. Vi ved ikke så meget om det, men... 78:36 Can you imagine that he was going to be kicked back the Fiend's line and has taken special operations? 78:44 Soe has not documented the kind of operations. Soe has been in the end of the last month of the war also used to get the Tysk Tysk Tysk Tysk back on the continent. There were KZ-lejr, which had to run. There were things that Troels had been with. 79:07 It's not how it is, but it's what I can say is that it's what I've seen some of his americans and English friends have told about Svend Troelsens talker from London, and some Jutta Groh, his good mother, who came to London, said that it was Tortenskjøl's soldiers, so when they came in and said to Troelsen, now you're going with here, so there's no other way. 79:35 It's also because of his medalist? 79:37 Yes, there were many. 79:40 It's not a medalist for Staben in London? 79:42 No, not just that. There were really big operations. And what we know is that, that he was a secretary and some of his colleagues in his advocate. 79:54 He told us that he had some time at the end. And today we call it PTSD or Marit over the things he was aware of and with him at the time of the operation. 80:07 Men han er også med i planlægningen af angrebet på Sjælhuset i København, og det er jo især katastrofen med den franske skole kommer til at plage ham. Faktisk så omkommer hans kones mormor, og det er meget tæt på, at hans datter også dør, så hun bliver passet af mormoren der i... 80:30 And then he goes back to him, and he goes back to him, and he goes back to him, and he goes back to him, and he goes back to him, and he goes back to him, and he goes back to him, and he goes back to him, and he goes back to Denmark, but he doesn't know what he's going to do with his wife. 80:51 That can you quite understand, but now he had a new travel, and the phone was not really on the phone at the time. And so started there a massive fest, and there was a fest with all his friends. 81:03 Yes, and that was also England. For England were a couple of months, and they were in Denmark over summer, and they had both the administrative, but also the military role to get rid of it. And it was... with Sven Troelsen as their host. It's one of them, who really liked it. So it's a good summer for him, until the danses politicians begin to make a campaign against him and against Kampen. 81:38 Trusen, han er klar i opposition til samarbejdspolitikerne. Altså, han har det synspunkt, at de skulle fjerne alt sammen fra posterne i det nye Danmark, og det er ikke helt det, der kommer til at ske. Det kommer faktisk til at overtage det hele, og modstandsbevægelsen bliver kørt ud på et sidespor. Og så kunne man jo sige, kunne han ikke fortsætte i det danske militære? Han er jo sådan en stedig græden hos The Buffs. Han har erfaring fra krigsskuepladserne. 82:01 But it's not the right answer to the question. He knows very quickly that the way is locked. 82:08 Yes, there is his huge fiend, Kaptajn Sjød Eriksen, who both under the war, had hoped to stop him for him, and had asked him for him to be so shudskirts, so he had sat Danmarks Sikkerhed over Styr. Denne Sødt Eriksen bliver egentlig hyldet og hjulpet af politikerne til forfremmelse, kommer straks bedre placeret i generalstaben, og det kan Svend Thulesen godt se, så er vejen simpelthen spærret for mig. 82:34 Og det nytter ikke noget, at han også har fundet ud af, at Sødt Eriksen kortvarigt havde meldt sig ind i DNSAP, altså det Danske Nazisparti. He's also been able to help him out. It's not going to play a big role. It's not going to play a big role. So he goes back to landbrugs, and there he goes. I think I can understand it with so much drama and so much. 82:55 And so he finds out, that he will do a job with a jurist. And he won't have some money, and he's actually a jurist for three years. We know that he's very disciplined. And so he gets a solid advocate for the firm of Jejle. 83:09 It's the scene called Jajle, Gersted and Monsen, I think they ended up with it. And so they were fusioning with Plesner, I think it is. And he has a lot of friends, so he's got a lot of friends. And so I can understand, they're not talking about the war. It's a theme that they're not talking about in the 1940s and 1950s. And so as you mentioned, he's just like... 83:33 momentan blind i par år. Måske en psykosomatisk reaktion. En slags grinskru inhenter ham. Vi ved ikke hvorfor. Han vedbliver med at være reserveofficer i Liggaard. Og så bliver han så foran sig endelig ridderkorset. 83:49 And then it's also that he begins to discuss, and also Trulsens' insats. And the fight with Skjold Eriksen, it goes hard for him. And in the first time he takes Trulsens so not really to mention it. It goes via some other historians, like Jørgen Hestrup bl.a. who wrote... 84:13 Yes, and contact with England. 84:17 Troelsen and Hestrup had a really good markup. Hestrup had... When Svend Troelsens flotte kildematerial and his insats in London, he used his vinkel. 84:29 And it's the book that comes to show there in the 50s. It's still a very important book. But there are other stories and other sources. But it's been a lot of years. Hans kone, she died in 1977, and he was in a sort of hul. And so... 84:48 And that's maybe also what he begins to do with the debate about the war. And we know that there are three places where he takes blood from the first time. The first time, it's a tale where he should hold a tale for the man Jørgen Kieler, which I think many of you know. He's the lady, who is in Holger Danske and who overlever a concentration camp. 85:13 And Kieler, he's going to take Ebbe Mung's price, which is been given after Ebbe Mung's death in the beginning of the 70s. And the price he's going to take him in 1980. 85:23 And what he says, I don't think it's so much as I heard it, but it was it was the time. We'll just hear it, where he's maybe all the most sharp. 85:34 The Danske Modstandsbevægelse had it well sereen in the world, because it had two fronts. 85:40 The German front had the German front, and then the German politics. 85:46 We lived under a sort of sovereignty fiction. 85:50 At we were frie, what we all knew we were not. That means when there was an attack against the German, the German, or the Gestapo, so it was straffat after tysk and krigsret. But it was also straffat and criminel after dansk. 86:08 This has been a big issue. 86:10 Stores hindringer, der skulle overvindes, før folk tog denne stilling. Og det kræver selvfølgelig, at der er idealister til. 86:19 Folk, der sagde, det er ikke karrieren, det gælder. Det er simpelthen nu landet og landets frihed. Vi kan ikke leve under de vilkår, der blev putt os fra nazismens side. En hver vil kæmpe for at komme fri, hvis de bliver bundet. Og vi var blevet bundet. Hvad enten vi ville være ved det eller ej. 86:41 One of the young people who didn't take a look at his career, was the doctor with John Kiehler, my next friend. 86:58 It he says, that there was no one who stood up and Kiehler was one of the heroes. And so there were all of them who had more interest in the career. It was the ones that were svicted. There was... 87:10 We're not only with tysians, we're also with other people who are going to threaten us. Is that correct? Yes, exactly. And then there's the interview with Ninja, which we've already talked about. And it's interview is a very important story. It's a very important story for Truls. 87:26 the whole thing is. And I see for example the criticism of Gert as very sharp, where he says, Gert is not just him, but he is not just him, but he is not just him. He is not just him, but he is not just him. He is not just him. He is not just him. He is not just him. He is not just him. He is not just him. He is not just him. He is not just him. He is not just him. help, train, instruing in a regular situation. 87:58 In that way, there were many to live, and many were, so England had to cast uegnet folk down, so it was a huge shift, which he didn't have to give him in his days. There was also dead at the time. 88:14 There was no doubt about, that he believed, that he would have been strong, if the officer had been able to do with their wisdom. And then in 1988, there was also him, who talked about the 4th of May, in Ryvangen. And there was also said some things. And... 88:37 Kan du huske, hvad budskabet er? 88:38 Ja, der er selvfølgelig en hyles til dem, der gav deres liv. Det er også en opsang, at vi er nødt til at være soldatiske med vores venner i udlandet og NATO. Det er dem, vi er nødt til at gå ind og være fuldstændig enige med og støtte fra den side. 88:58 He knows to give up again with one of his friends, Eric Husfeldt's daughter. Eva. Yeah. And so... Yeah, he was actually very sick the last year. He was really invalid at talk to him, isn't he? Yeah. But he was on his face, said he. And he died as 81-year-old in 1997. 89:23 Thank you, Trine Engholm Mikhilsen. You are the author of the book, The Mørkes Time, with the title, The Gik Sin Egen Vej For Danmark. A book that in 2025 came out of the book on People's Press. 89:37 Hitler's A-slur is done for today. I Teknikken sat Tristan Willemann, and I'm Jarl Kornua, and I'm going to be here for the program. You can listen to this program and the other programs via berneske.dk or one of the other podcasts. 89:52 It's also on the other podcast chains, so you can hear all the older episodes, which are produced at Radio 24-7. Remember, you can also find out on the Facebook page. Just search for Hitler's Aslöre. Thank you for today.